I think there's a lot of great Jewish thoughts leaders in the academic world who are actually saying some good Torah. See the podcast עושים תנ״ך for an example. Someone intellectual going OTD would be happier as a Jewish studies professor somewhere than a Rosh kolel. Yonatan Adler is an example of someone who grew up frum, has unorthodox views, but there's a really good place for him in the academic world. (His book is fantastic btw). It's also a world that's refreshingly egalitarian.
In terms of starting new movements of Judaism, I think we have enough tbh
Happens to be I know something of the “Jewish studies” world, their greatest dream of success is getting some yeshiva bachurim to listen to their podcast…
I mean to say there isn't really a separate community who consumes Jewish studies content except for the same old ones we are discussing…
Jewish studies is struggling with the same irrelevance all academic humanities are struggling, their best hope is the traditional yeshivas… there's also way more jobs still in yeshiva than in academia, even for semi -heretics…
I always find it interesting that in the Ashkenazic world there are various divisions (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal, etc. etc.). The Sephardic world doesn't have such divisions. From my superficial view it seems that Sephardim are more accepting of a diversity of belief & practice than Ashkenazim.
Most Sephardim cannot relate to Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist—any “denomination” that differs from their grandparents’ outlook. They may go to shul on Shabbat and then drive to their friend’s house, but they go to the “Orthodox “ shul.
The problem with this theory is that the historic creative rule breakers that you speak of had to be courageous and *break the rules*. They had to take the risk and put their necks on the chopping block. Telling the goody good rules followers that we must embrace and accept the revolutionaries defeats the whole point...they wouldn't really be revolutionaries if everybody accepted them, would they?
I dunno. My husband and I visit our Rabbi every chol hamoed. Believe me, we are not the type of people to ask what kind of ice cream should I eat, but our family knows that he is a mentor of sorts. He is older now, a Rabbi in a BT yeshiva. I feel as if I am sitting in the presence of pure tzidkus. He is כולו טוב. He has a few interesting things to say, but that’s not the point.
I think we have plenty of very big Neshamas right here in the fold. Of course it is a HUGE loss when I hear about the brain drain that is happening, that smart, creative minds are leaving Yiddishkeit. חבל! Stay around and share your creativity. But maybe you need to move out of The Straits of certain communities.
Biologically we are grand kids from war survivors who were obedient (to survive the war, you needed to shut up and work your way through it) and we're still in need of the the Shtetl life after the Shtetl failed them. These are the people who raised us and our parents. This is the brain drain you're expressing. Biological.
I'm not sure surviving was mostly due to obedience. I'm sure some people survived that way but I think most people survived out of taking initiative. We can compare examples and see paterns maybe.
What exactly is the goal of all these "chakiras" regarding Jewish thought and Jewish life? In other words, "tachlis geeret" what's the end goal and purpose for these discussions?
Isn't the purpose of creation to do ratzon Hashem? Let each group do what they see fit as ratzon Hashem.
I don't see anything or anyone changing anything, based on these conversations and discussions.
Reminds me of my FIL complaint that when he was younger, Queens was a very diverse place. Today, the next generation was triaged to either Lakewood, Teaneck, Williamsburg, etc.
It’s also interesting to note how people who leave the community also abandon its vocabulary, although you can tell that sometimes they just need to use a word from the world they left to explain something.
Very much agree with much of what you write here!
I think there's a lot of great Jewish thoughts leaders in the academic world who are actually saying some good Torah. See the podcast עושים תנ״ך for an example. Someone intellectual going OTD would be happier as a Jewish studies professor somewhere than a Rosh kolel. Yonatan Adler is an example of someone who grew up frum, has unorthodox views, but there's a really good place for him in the academic world. (His book is fantastic btw). It's also a world that's refreshingly egalitarian.
In terms of starting new movements of Judaism, I think we have enough tbh
Happens to be I know something of the “Jewish studies” world, their greatest dream of success is getting some yeshiva bachurim to listen to their podcast…
And what's a Rosh kolels dream of success?
I mean to say there isn't really a separate community who consumes Jewish studies content except for the same old ones we are discussing…
Jewish studies is struggling with the same irrelevance all academic humanities are struggling, their best hope is the traditional yeshivas… there's also way more jobs still in yeshiva than in academia, even for semi -heretics…
I always find it interesting that in the Ashkenazic world there are various divisions (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Renewal, etc. etc.). The Sephardic world doesn't have such divisions. From my superficial view it seems that Sephardim are more accepting of a diversity of belief & practice than Ashkenazim.
Most Sephardim cannot relate to Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist—any “denomination” that differs from their grandparents’ outlook. They may go to shul on Shabbat and then drive to their friend’s house, but they go to the “Orthodox “ shul.
The problem with this theory is that the historic creative rule breakers that you speak of had to be courageous and *break the rules*. They had to take the risk and put their necks on the chopping block. Telling the goody good rules followers that we must embrace and accept the revolutionaries defeats the whole point...they wouldn't really be revolutionaries if everybody accepted them, would they?
Right I that's why I don't recommend "embracing", as in the beginning of the article.
I dunno. My husband and I visit our Rabbi every chol hamoed. Believe me, we are not the type of people to ask what kind of ice cream should I eat, but our family knows that he is a mentor of sorts. He is older now, a Rabbi in a BT yeshiva. I feel as if I am sitting in the presence of pure tzidkus. He is כולו טוב. He has a few interesting things to say, but that’s not the point.
I think we have plenty of very big Neshamas right here in the fold. Of course it is a HUGE loss when I hear about the brain drain that is happening, that smart, creative minds are leaving Yiddishkeit. חבל! Stay around and share your creativity. But maybe you need to move out of The Straits of certain communities.
Your insight is astounding!
What I wrote on a similar post:
https://lakewoodfromafar.substack.com/p/the-death-of-religious-curiosity/comment/91086693?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=33pit
The post and comments are worth reading.
Would you make a person who denys Torah MiSinai to be a Rosh Kolel???
We follow what the Rebbe said even when it seems hard to understand
Okay, if you think that's a good idea, sign me up.
Make him a Rosh Kollel and he'll conveniently discover Torah Misinai again!
Also he'll have a great blog : the orthoprax Rosh Kollels!
Biologically we are grand kids from war survivors who were obedient (to survive the war, you needed to shut up and work your way through it) and we're still in need of the the Shtetl life after the Shtetl failed them. These are the people who raised us and our parents. This is the brain drain you're expressing. Biological.
I'm not sure surviving was mostly due to obedience. I'm sure some people survived that way but I think most people survived out of taking initiative. We can compare examples and see paterns maybe.
They say doctors don't die from cancer. If they have incurable cancer, they make sure to die from something else..
Philosophers don't want to survive 4 years in Auschwitz, that's what I'm trying to say. Obedience, Amunah Peshutah, etc.
I think this identification of "philosopher" with "someone who doesn't have a reason survive" is suspicion...
Suspicious
What exactly is the goal of all these "chakiras" regarding Jewish thought and Jewish life? In other words, "tachlis geeret" what's the end goal and purpose for these discussions?
Isn't the purpose of creation to do ratzon Hashem? Let each group do what they see fit as ratzon Hashem.
I don't see anything or anyone changing anything, based on these conversations and discussions.
Reminds me of my FIL complaint that when he was younger, Queens was a very diverse place. Today, the next generation was triaged to either Lakewood, Teaneck, Williamsburg, etc.
It’s also interesting to note how people who leave the community also abandon its vocabulary, although you can tell that sometimes they just need to use a word from the world they left to explain something.